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87 Elky SS
10-19-2010, 06:26 AM
Have been listening to the news about the new 15% Ethanol gas. They say not to use it in anything older than 2007, which obviously leaves us all out. . .Supposed to make cars older run sluggish, not as much power/performance and could make older engines run hotter.

What are we supposed to do? Thoughts?

Scott

grumpyvette
10-19-2010, 07:24 AM
adding 15% ethanol makes gas burn a bit cooler and as such it tends to increase the effective octane, the bad part is that it tends to absorb moisture if the car sits for weeks between drives, and ethanol tends to eat some plastics and aluminum over long term storage, or long term use, if the cars not designed to use ethanol
adding a lubricant to the fuel like marvel mystery oil , its use helps, reduce corrosion issues noticeably from the tests Ive seen,but its not a cure (about 6 oz per 10 gallons of fuel).

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/news/entry/new-engineering-analysis-confirms-e15-safe-for-use-in-older-vehicles/

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/biofuels/renewable-fuels-association-urges-epa-to-approve-e15-for-older-vehicles

http://www.brighterenergy.org/16344/news/transport/ethanol-industry-study-backs-e15-ethanol-fuel/

nowukno
10-19-2010, 07:30 AM
Can we use stabil? Will it be at all pumps or just selected pumps? i wonder if a lead substitute can be use with the E 15. :confused::confused:

grumpyvette
10-19-2010, 08:57 AM
Can we use stabil? Will it be at all pumps or just selected pumps? i wonder if a lead substitute can be use with the E 15. :confused::confused:


its NOT a low octane issue and because its not a lead substitute won,t do much for you
ethanol has approximately 20-30% less fuel energy per gallon of fuel/air mix burnt,but you can burn about 51% more ethanol,mixed with air and use higher compression for a net gain in power per power stroke in an engine designed to maximize ethanol's burn characteristics
but your only dealing with a minimal increase in the percentage of ethanol added to the gas so the change is minimal or almost a non-issue

87 Elky SS
10-19-2010, 06:27 PM
I hate like hell to have to put an additive in it. . .I've got to do that now, with the fuel for my '70 Chevelle. . .that runs the cost to almost $4.00 per gallon, and if I can sneak some racing gas from Sunoco (NASCAR fuel) that is $6.50 a gallon. . .this keeps up, I'll be driving one of those friggin rice rockets for daily transport. . .Lord, smack me for saying that. . .:(

Scott

87 Elky SS
10-19-2010, 06:28 PM
Grumpyvette, thanks for the links. . .interesting reading. . :D

Scott

oldtinsmith
10-20-2010, 06:57 AM
I know nothing about the fuel systems (how are they different, materials?), injectors, fuel tanks, fuel lines, etc., of E-85! How does one store a "flex fuel" car (moisture)? How about retro-fits?......................Anybody know?

Doug:olcoot:

87 Elky SS
10-20-2010, 10:06 AM
I sure don't Doug. . .but, would love to hear from someone who knows a little about it all. . .I just hopefully don't want to get in a situation where I've got to start adding this or adding that to get by. . .that's when I'll be forced to buy something newer, and put them all up for just those 'sometime sunny days'. . .which I'm sure, is that the Govt is trying to force us to do. . .:dontknow:

Scott

oldtinsmith
10-20-2010, 11:51 AM
I agree!

Doug:olcoot:

nowukno
10-20-2010, 12:08 PM
Im dreading the day.:(

oldtinsmith
10-20-2010, 01:14 PM
We should remember that the after market has been able to work within the law and still able to improve performance and even fuel mileage at times. Remember the gloom and doom caused by EGR's, Cat. converters, low lead then no lead fuels, EFE's, coolant switches, vacuum switches, and on and on, OMG hot rodding is dead! American ingenuity Will lead the way!Will it be cheap and easy? No. Will it be quick? No. Look at the brutes the auto industry can build. Look at how the after market can have parts ready BEFORE cars hit the showrooms now. We have dedicated people that seem to live just for cars (grumpyvette?!) Research will win out in the long run IMO. Just how you and I are going to get to that point only time will tell!

Doug:olcoot:

nowukno
10-20-2010, 01:20 PM
We should remember that the after market has been able to work within the law and still able to improve performance and even fuel mileage at times. Remember the gloom and doom caused by EGR's, Cat. converters, low lead then no lead fuels, EFE's, coolant switches, vacuum switches, and on and on, OMG hot rodding is dead! American ingenuity Will lead the way!Will it be cheap and easy? No. Will it be quick? No. Look at the brutes the auto industry can build. Look at how the after market can have parts ready BEFORE cars hit the showrooms now. We have dedicated people that seem to live just for cars (grumpyvette?!) Research will win out in the long run IMO. Just how you and I are going to get to that point only time will tell!

Doug:olcoot:
Doug,you gotta good point there!!!:dancenana:

87 Elky SS
10-21-2010, 06:16 AM
I agree with you 100% Doug. . .only thing that bothers me, is the $$$$. Yes, I know, nothing is cheap, and nothing is free. . .however, it just seems like every few years, Washing, Auto Industry, Green, Sierra (sp) Club, SOMEONE jumps up, and decides to get anything over 6-8-10, etc. old, off the road. No one seems to take into account, not everyone should be lumped in the 'nasty old car' category.

I'll take my uncle for example. Love him to death. He is the kind of guy, that would get up at 3:00 in the morning, to come change your tire for you, because it was raining, and YOU didn't want to get wet. . .but, he is absolutely the WORST person in the world when it comes to vehicles. He never has a vehicle over 2-3 years old, but his idea of maintenance is, fill it up, and check the oil. . .NEVER change it, just check it, and add as necessary.

He was getting ready to trade cars a few years back, and I was going to go with him. When we went out to get into his car, I said we need to check everything, just to make sure all was well. I pulled the dipstick out, and honestly it was like molassas (sp). I told him we needed to stop at a quick change place and get it changed. He said why? It was full. . .then proceded to tell me, he had NEVER changed oil, just added when it was low. . .the vehicle had about 77,000 on it and he had never changed the air cleaner either. . .just took it out on occasioon, and blew it out.

I know not everyone is as bad as Uncle Bob, but he certainly is the polar opposite of people who drive performance/collector cars. . .we are always tuning on them or something - yet, we are always at the bottom of the barrel when it comes time to 'do some chopping' on older models. . .remember buying credits by buying older cars? Who knows what's next. . .:dontknow:

Scott

Mikey
10-21-2010, 07:37 AM
For the past few years, the gas pumps have written right on them 10% ethanol. So we have been using that blend for some time. If you think about it, are your cars set up to run unleaded gas? You should not need to add any "additives" to make the blend work. The "additives" are in the gasoline part if they are needed. The problem that I have, is that although the ethanol burns cooler and cleaner, you also use nearly twice as much to do the same thing as straight gasoline. I ran Methanol in my dirt circle track cars, and it worked excellent, but for a long race, you had to make sure you got the fuel cell really full, or you might not make it to the end. On a 1/2 mile track, you pit, you lose. Also, we used to add Caster Oil to the fuel as a top cylinder lubricant, because the methanol does not have any............Mikey:hehe:

oldtinsmith
10-21-2010, 09:18 AM
I've heard about "carbon footprint", and that everything manufactured has a carbon footprint ( ethanol ?). Why the non-partisan people do not tell us what the carbon footprint is for the production of ethanol (per gallon),and the carbon footprint reduction by adding 15% ethanol to gasoline (if any). I DON'T KNOW! What about the carbon footprint for the operation (MPG of driving) of cars without ethanol (and it's carbon footprint) and compare it to the operation of cars with the ethanol (and it's lower fuel economy? I DON'T KNOW! And now the kicker. Every new car produced has a carbon footprint. If I keep my car for a long time, and keep it "tuned" (and up grade parts of a better design) so I don't have to buy a new car/cars, then I'm only responsible for the carbon footprint of ONE car (not the carbon footprint of two, three, or more cars) and therefore leaving the world a little cleaner in the long run IMO.

Doug:olcoot:

Dirdyburd
10-21-2010, 12:12 PM
we have some stations here in OK that have both ethanol and ethanol free pumps. are they passing a law that says that all stations must have ethanol? i have seen some stations that sell only ehtanol gas and they are not doing very well on business. they selll some cheap beer, but they hardly sell gas.

nowukno
10-21-2010, 01:22 PM
:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead: What is the world coming to:dontknow:?